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Aluminum can breadboard
February 17 2004 at 11:00 PM
John Klayer  (no login)

I finished the breadboard and tested it with an interferometer. So far it looks good. I will do some more tests to be sure it is the cans giving the stiffness and not just the sheet metal itself.
 
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(Login MichaelHarrison2)
Re: Aluminum can breadboardFebruary 18 2004, 12:46 PM 

I finished the breadboard and tested it with an interferometer. So far it looks good.

Great. How did you do the testing, IE. what did you put the breadboard on, was there any isolation or additional damping involved, was the whole thing on concrete, etc.


I will do some more tests to be sure it is the cans giving the stiffness and not just the sheet metal itself.

How?



---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Re: Re: Aluminum can breadboardFebruary 19 2004, 9:41 PM 

The breadboard I made is 8"x18", a 16 GA steel top and bottom, 20 aluminum can in between glued side to side and top and bottom with epoxy.

The interferometer is composed of a diode laser, beamsplitter and two mirrors each mounted on a machinist magnetic base with a short stud. The beam is about 3" above the top surface. A simple lens spreads the pattern to a screen.

The tests have gone very well. I tried it with and without an innertube for isolation at different places all over my house including the front porch (solid concrete), wood floor, on a coffee table, on my holography table and on a counter top.
The vibration sources I used were dropping objects on floor, stomping on floor, walking, furnace running, washing machine, highway traffic and trains on the nearby tracks.

I haven't had the time to work on it much the last few days and it looks like my weekend will be shot doing something else. Before I get too excited about the results I need do some further tests:
1) Test that it was indeed the aluminum cans doing the magic and not just the sheet metal itself over the short dimensions of the interferometer. This can be tested by simply setting the interferometer up on a sheet of metal the same size as the top without the cans.
2) Test that the stability is not due to the robust nature of the machinist bases with short studs. This can be tested by replacing the short studs with longer posts.
3) Squeeze more hours into each day.

I'm itching to build a bigger breadboard and try out a 2 beam transmission setup on it.

 
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John Klayer
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Metal vs metal with cansFebruary 20 2004, 9:20 PM 

I set up the interferometer on a metal sheet identical to the top plate of my breadboard and saw no stability whatsoever. The cans make a big difference.
 
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(Login MichaelHarrison2)
PVCFebruary 18 2004, 1:07 PM 

Oh well, John beat me
Tonight I intend to clean off the steel from my first attempt and use PVC cement to bond the sections together prior to adhering the whole mess to the bottom plate (I won't necessarily do both tonight). For those that don't know, my last attempt failed because I over-thinned the epoxy. This time I'll just heat it so that it's good and syrupy while I'm spreading it.




---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
 
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(Login apmlistas)
Re: Aluminum can breadboardFebruary 20 2004, 2:57 AM 

Sorry if I sound too ignorant... what is the use of the breadboard, if you already have a nice table (same question is valid for Michael)?

Thanks
 
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Tony
(no login)
Research!February 20 2004, 4:22 AM 

I want to thank those who are investigating the can technique, as they are paving the way for others who are starting up or expanding their labs! I wait with baited breath for the results...


 
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John Klayer
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Arturo's questionFebruary 20 2004, 9:30 PM 

Who said my table is nice?
 
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Arturo
(no login)
Re: Arturo's questionFebruary 21 2004, 12:42 PM 

Ooooops

But that does not change my question... what is the difference between a table and a breadboard? I mean are they complementary or are they to be sufficient separately?
 
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John K;ayer
(no login)
Re: Re: Arturo's questionFebruary 24 2004, 9:43 AM 

The reason I'm building a breadboard is to test the idea of making a honeycomb using aluminum cans. I made two so far; one was a 4' straight line of cans between 1/8" steel strips to measure the deflection, the second measures 8"x18" with 20 cans between 16 GA steel sheets to check with an interferometer. I'm now working on a 2'x2' breadboard to do further interferometer tests and set up some 2 beam holograms. If these tests pan out, I'll consider scaling up to a larger table.

I got this idea some time ago and got more interested in actually trying it after reading the posting of John Laux's brillant work making a honeycomb using ABS plastic sections.
 
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(Login MichaelHarrison2)
Re: Re: Arturo's questionFebruary 26 2004, 2:31 PM 

But that does not change my question... what is the difference between a table and a breadboard? I mean are they complementary or are they to be sufficient separately?

One difference is that typically a "table" is intended for larger setups and tends to be isolated. A "breadboard" is much smaller and often sits on top of a larger surface.



---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
 
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(Login MichaelHarrison2)
Re: Re: Aluminum can breadboardFebruary 26 2004, 2:19 PM 

For me, the breadboard is a step along the path to a more stable table. I just spent some time expanding my table and I'm now working through some PVC tests and trying to get hold of some hexcel. If I can do the latter, I'll make my table top out of that. If I can't, I'll do a full top using PVC (similar to John Laux's design).





---------------------------
If someone says it can't be done but they haven't tried it, don't believe them.
http://www.dragonseye.com/Holography
 
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Tony
(no login)
Any Results Yet?March 7 2004, 7:24 PM 

Just thought I'd ping this topic back to the top, to see if anyone has made any holograms on beercans yet?!


"If someone says it can be done and has tried it, copy them!"
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Re: Any Results Yet?March 8 2004, 10:45 AM 

I'm still working on building the 2'x2'breadboard. I hope to be finished soon. 2'x2' should have enough room to do some two beam experiments.
 
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Tony
(no login)
2x2March 8 2004, 11:56 AM 

You bet! I've been doing 2 beam Transmission, Reflection, and H1/H2 copies on a 1x2 - that's why I'm hoping to upgrade to a 2x2 can table!
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Working on itMarch 13 2004, 11:41 PM 

It is 2:30 AM and I'm still working on the jig to align the cans nice and neat.
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
GlueingMarch 19 2004, 4:45 AM 

I started glueing the 2'x 2' breadboard last night. This is turning out to be a lot more work than it seemed it would be when I got the idea. Nothing is ever as simple as it looks.


 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Re: GlueingMarch 22 2004, 6:36 AM 

I never would have guessed that it would take this much time to glue these cans. I'm doing it can by can, row by row. If I ever build a larger table I'll ask John Laux for pointers on how he did his pipe sections. There must be an easier way. It is getting closer to being done, I have 7 of the 10 rows done.

 
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(Login HoloForge)
Re: Re: GlueingMarch 23 2004, 6:52 PM 

Hey John I see that your feeling my pain!

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile, I have been soooo busy with work, and maching new parts for the lab I just haven't had time for anything else.

I am very glad to hear that your experiments with aluminum cans is going so well, and I also apologize for not doing the wood floor tests with my breadboard in the past like I said that I was going to do.

One of the reasons that I opted for the PVC design is that I didn't have to work with epoxy to put them together...only the steel top and bottom to the final core.

With PVC they make a great cement that comes in a can and has a cotton ball at the end for the application.

The best thing about it is that it dries almost on contact.

Here is what I did...see if you can apply it to your setup...I clamped down a 4ft+ piece of wood 1"x1" to the future bottom of the table. Make this as long as your row is going to be and mark it with a sharpie so you don't have to remember when to stop (it's all about repetition)you don't want to be bothered with counting 800 pieces in my case. Also clamp a smaller piece of the same size wood to one end to make an "L", square these two pieces up and start making your rows.

Once the glue has set up move the row off to the side and build the next one. Keep going until you are finished....

Once you have all of your rows done put one row back on the wood "L", take another row glue the sides that will make contact and place against the first now here's the trick...I went to Home Depot and bought 2 - 3' to 4' "Quick Release Clamps" the kind with the squeezable triggers. After you glue the first 2 rows together slap the quick clamp on each end this will hold them in place. Now glue the third, release the clamps put the rows together and clamp again.

I had to do 4 sections of 2'x 4'. To glue those pieces together I just moved them close together applied glue to both sides and then put a ratcheting nylon band clamp around the 2 sections and ratcheted away until the sections were forced to come true. You can buy these in 4 qty. at Home Depot for $10.00.

You could probably get away with using the band clamps when gluing the rows together, I had the luxury of having help from a friend so we would each handle the Quick Clamps and it only took us 2 days to do all 800+ pieces.

In fact I would use the Band Clamps on aluminum cans because they don't have the strength of the PVC pipes. They would probably buckle under the pressure if you used the Quick Clamps. The band would also force the center of the row to stay in contact with the other row and not bow out.

You probably already had ideas similar to this in the past, I haven't found the "Magic Bullet" to speed this process up any faster...except more hands in the pile.

Good Luck and let me know how it turns out...cause I might need to make yet another table and I am seriously considering a "double deck aluminum can table" ~ steel - aluminum can core - steel - aluminum can core - steel sandwich to be more precise!

-----------------------------------------
A place to forge new ideas into hologaphy!
http://holoforge.org
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Getting evenMarch 24 2004, 8:26 AM 

John Laux,

Did all the tops your pipes align even before you put on the top skin? If not, what did you do about it?

 
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(Login HoloForge)
Re: Getting evenMarch 24 2004, 2:39 PM 

Hey John,

All of the PVC pipes were cut to the same length, but due to some irregularities in the pipe when it was extruded at the factory ( some of the 10' lengths were bowed)they didn't line up perfectly....

When the whole core was put together there were just a few high spots which I took off with a belt sander and a 4' level. It only took about a 1/2 hour to accomplish.

The key is to have a nice level, solid surface ( the bottom 3/16" steel plate set level ) when you start putting the rows and the core together to make everything line up correctly.

-----------------------------------------
A place to forge new ideas into hologaphy!
http://holoforge.org
 
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John Klayer
(no login)
Re: Re: Getting evenMarch 24 2004, 10:28 PM 

I just glued my last can in place a few minutes ago. I'm using a 1/4" plate of glass to hold the bottom 16 GA sheet steel flat with clamps along the perimeter. Each time I glued a row I put a 2" wide strip of 1/4" glass on top of it with bricks on it to press the tops of the cans even.
Now that the last can is in place, all 85 cans are setting there with 10 strips of glass and 30 bricks on top.
I'll let the epoxy set till tomorrow or Friday night before I try to epoxy the top 16 GA steel in place using another 1/4" glass plate and a bunch of bricks to press it flat.
If any cans are too high, I'm thinking of gently using a hammer.
 
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